Merging the Arabic and Moroccan Arabic support forums

[petya]

The Arabic and Moroccan Arabic teams have requested that the Moroccan Arabic support forum gets merged with the Arabic one as the team will work together to provide support in Arabic and they don't see a point in dividing resources and users.

Original request: ​https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2016/08/17/hello-perya-as-we-discussed-on-slack-the/

Worth a thought: should we contact the Algerian Arabic team and check if they'd also like to merge with ar.wordpress.org/support?

cc @sidati, @hafiben

[netweb]

Related: #1917

[sidati]

@petya, thanks for creating a ticket for this matter, about the topics, there are very few (5 topics for the moment), we just don't want to delete our users topics.

It will be nice if the Algerian WordPress are also agreed to unify the support team, i suggest to move forward for the moment and merge the Moroccan with the Arabic and then i'll be happy to contact the other "Arabic" teams to join the team.

[Hafiben]

Good Morning @petya

Concerning the Algerian Wordpress, we would like to keep the branch as independent from the Arabic one.

Kind Regards,

cc @sidati

Replying to petya:

The Arabic and Moroccan Arabic teams have requested that the Moroccan Arabic support forum gets merged with the Arabic one as the team will work together to provide support in Arabic and they don't see a point in dividing resources and users.

Original request: ​https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2016/08/17/hello-perya-as-we-discussed-on-slack-the/

Worth a thought: should we contact the Algerian Arabic team and check if they'd also like to merge with ar.wordpress.org/support?

cc @sidati, @hafiben

[sidati]

@Hafiben,

We only want to merge the support forums while keeping the translations/branchs as they are :), we just want to unify the support team and you will keep your role.

cc @petya
Replying to Hafiben:

Good Morning @petya

Concerning the Algerian Wordpress, we would like to keep the branch as independent from the Arabic one.

Kind Regards,

cc @sidati

[sidati]

@jmdodd

[Hafiben]

@sidati

I appreciate your kind attention. The Algerian Wordpress is in Darija and not in Modern Standard Arabic.
What is the position concerning this topic?
I don't want to have the same polemic I had in another website.

Kind Regards

cc @petya

[netweb]

Where was this discussion held in Slack? I cannot find it :(

CC @alex-ye @rasheed

[sidati]

@Hafiben, Totally understood :)
@netweb the slack has no discussion except direct messages/emails between the parts. unfortunately @rasheed has no #slack account but @alex-ye does, although he prefers emails :(

[sidati]

@sa3idho

[alex-ye]

Hello everyone!,
WordPress.org mentions e-mail notifications are not working with me sometimes.

Yes, @sidati and me, have talked about the merging and we had agreed on some points:
1- The Moroccan Arabic support topics should be moved to "​https://ar.wordpress.org/support/forum/troubleshooting/", (We want to keep the Arabic Support forums structure as it is).
2- @sidati and @sa3idho (ONLY) will be added as "moderators" in the Arabic Support Forums (​https://ar.wordpress.org/support).
3- The Moroccan Arabic support forums should be closed and the visitors/users should be redirected to the Arabic Support Forums if possible.

[sidati]

Sorry @alex-ye, but i never mention anything about 'decreasing" our capabilities/privileges from key-masters to moderators, to be honest i find it a little bit rude to pretend that we discussed this point O.o.

Anyway i'm open to know why we have to give up our roles, may you please explain it to us ??

Replying to alex-ye:

Hello everyone!,
WordPress.org mentions e-mail notifications are not working with me sometimes.

Yes, @sidati and me, have talked about the merging and we had agreed on some points:
1- The Moroccan Arabic support topics should be moved to "​https://ar.wordpress.org/support/forum/troubleshooting/", (We want to keep the Arabic Support forums structure as it is).
2- @sidati and @sa3idho (ONLY) will be added as "moderators" in the Arabic Support Forums (​https://ar.wordpress.org/support).
3- The Moroccan Arabic support forums should be closed and the visitors/users should be redirected to the Arabic Support Forums if possible.

[alex-ye]

@sidati Sorry, maybe we had misunderstand each other, I tried to be explicit and clear as far as I can, in both (e-mail messages and this ticket).

We (me and @sidati) had discussed this again by e-mail, and we haven't agreed on some points.

This ticket could be closed, maybe in another time.
Thank you.

[Hafiben]

@sidati @alex-ye @rasheed
My opinion is to share the administration of the Arabic Wordpress in a way that it always includes people from North Africa and people from Middle East with exactly the same administration privileges.
This administration SHOULD be respectful of the diversity of people and inside the Arabic language.
It means also the inclusion of other forms of Arabic (Darija).
All forms of hegemony or segregation should be banned.

cc @petya

[petya]

Hey everyone,

So, it's entirely up to all of you to decide if you'd like to have one general forum for all Arabic speaking WordPress users. However, when we talk about merging forums, we're also talking about sharing the responsibilities between members of all the teams that were a part of the merge regardless which Rosetta site ends up hosting the shared forum.

It would be great if there's an agreement around sharing the key master responsibilities between members of all teams but if such agreement doesn't exist I would advise on keeping the forums separate for the time being.

No immediate rush to merge in my opinion, but it would be great if you all keep talking to each monitor how many topics overlap.

[sidati]

@Hafiben @petya we would love to share the responsibility, i believe if @alex-ye/@rasheed give us why they are refusing the fusion maybe we can sort it somehow :)

[sa3idho]

Hi everyone

I think having separate support forums is not bad but a single forum for all Arab countries is a great idea. My current role in ary.wordpress.org/forums is keymaster and if we merge the forums i want to keep the same role, it's logical and I do not understand why the team of ar.wordpress.org/forums not accept that... @sidati @Hafiben Are we not responsible enough or are not enough Arabs?

@alex-ye
The absolute authority and total responsibility of ONLY one person are never good for the development of a community and has already been shown in previous situations.

Thank you.

[netweb]

Thanks everyone, bbPress 2.x roles are are not the same as bbPress 1.x roles, they're much more generous IMHO :)

The differences between moderator and keymaster is that a keymaster can promote/demote users, and add/delete forums whereas moderators cannot perform those two tasks, the current plan is:

​https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/forums/p1471536639007369

"macmanx: So, Meta Team will be Keymasters for sure, and I think I will be a Keymaster at least until we get roles sorted out, but I’m fine with only Meta Team having the power in this case. Moderator is enough, really."

The #support team discussed the role change at the weekly chat last week and the current plan for who has what roles on w.org/support is the following:

Upcoming Moderator Expectations Change
via ​https://make.wordpress.org/support/2016/08/august-18th-support-team-meeting-summary/

bbPress 2 will bring changes to the Moderator role, making it almost as powerful as the current Administrator role (it will only lack the powers that we never, and shouldn’t, use anyway). As such, we will be modifying the Moderator expectations to be more of a merge of the current Moderator and Administrator expectations. By unanimous vote, once the new bbPress 2 forum launches, the new Moderator expectations will be:

A moderator regularly takes care of the spam and modlook queue, while attending as many meetings as possible within reason and leaving no less than 10 publicly visible replies in the forum in a 6-month period.

For all of you Administrators out there, this is a “demotion” in name only, you’ll still have the same powers you use today, don’t panic. 🙂

Yes, there are higher roles with more powers available once we get to bbPress 2, and we will be actively considering whether or not we need them as we get comfortable with the new forums.

[alex-ye]

Replying to sa3idho:

The absolute authority and total responsibility of ONLY one person are never good for the development of a community and has already been shown in previous situations.

Actually, we are already two administrators from two different countries and regions, and there is no need for more at the current moment.

Mr. @sidati had made a clear statement in his recent e-mail message, saying that they doesn't "trust" us. I can't see how should we work together without trust and accountability.

Sorry, me and @rasheed, can't accept your offer.
Maybe in another time.

[samuelsidler]

I'm going to close this ticket and mark it as "maybelater." If, in the future, your communities can come to an agreement on merged forums, please let the polyglots team know on ​make/polyglots. That's a great place for discussion, as well.

[rasheed]

Indeed, currently there is no agreement. maybe in the future. In any case there is no point to merge in with people who don't trust our team.

[sa3idho]

I did not want to get into this controversy from the beginning because i was pretty sure of this result ... Anyway thanks for trying and clarify points of view.

[sidati]

"trust" ?! we here to serve the community and it seems yo me things became personal.

Anyway as @petya said no need to rush :)

Thank you all.

[rasheed]

Yes, trust is an essential and necessary element if you intend to work in a team. That's how I believe. Regardless of that, I don't think the merger is appropriate. As has been said before this isn't the place to conduct this discussion. Thanks anyway.

[sidati]

You keep dragging me back to useless discussion, you even saying this isn't the place for such discussion, let me tell you there are 2 places to discus theses matters :

1- HERE at make.wp.org and you was absent for the last 4 months.

2- #Slack and you don't have account there.

about "TRUST", what i meant that is WP Community is about sharing and helping between people whose don't even know each other.

i'm shucked that you describing "unifying Support" as NOT APPROPRIATE.

Anyway keep the ar.wp.org private property same as you did with ar-wp.com (the "official" arab wp community), i don't care anymore :(

this ticket was closed when you came, late and useless.

Replying to rasheed:

Yes, trust is an essential and necessary element if you intend to work in a team. That's how I believe. Regardless of that, I don't think the merger is appropriate. As has been said before this isn't the place to conduct this discussion. Thanks anyway.

[rasheed]

Replying to sidati:

Okay, the debate spilled over the personal aspect and that isn't acceptable.
As mentioned earlier me and Nashwan aren't interested in a merger. I'm here from 2005 and I can identify people who are able to serve WordPress community. You're not one of them.
So ridiculous that you want to force us to merge! I've never seen anything like this.

Anyway keep the ar.wp.org private property same as you did with ar-wp.com (the "official" arab wp community), i don't care anymore :(

Yes, these mine sites. What's your problem with my sites? Where is written that it is (the "official" arab wp community)? I would like to see.